PK Appeal

[Jairzinho]

Name of Character: Lev Dragovich

Character ID: 203331

SteamID: STEAM_0:0:158162795

Your Discord ID#: 276024386304344075

Date of PK: 10/6/1990

Reason for PK: Shooting at a cop after he shot me.

Why should you be unPK'd? What server rule or PK rule was violated?: First of all two cops shot at my car and i reacted by going all the way from the back to the front to shoot at them again because im an active threat for no reason but since they shot me they made me an active threat, so my friend swam away and i went back to shoot them. The UA can even check logs and see in a span of 2 minutes i went back and shot the cops that shot me for no reason. I will provide two short clips showing and summarizing everything. So in the first clip slow it down to a 0.5 speed and see two guns where fired at me for no reason, and also you can check logs we didnt run any officers down so that they a reason to shoot at us or anything. Because in the rules it states, Officers may not execute suspects, they must make an effort to arrest a suspect when possible render aid to a bleeding suspect. You can't kill someone if they are no longer an active threat between a reasonable pause. 
Thats when i went to hide to ambush them and in the second clip it shows they were waiting for us near apps to ambush us. general rules - killing rules 6: You may kill in self defence or in defence of your partners/faction/property (Must have F3). When you've been attacked by an aggressor and survive (you did not aggravate or bait them to hit you) you may return with a weapon to kill them.

 

1. You may not kill someone or escalate a confrontation to murder just for verbal disrespect/argument.
   -However if someone continues to disrespect you, you may physically intimidate or hit them. (Fists, melee weapon) As continued disrespect could realistically start a fight. The user then has free choice on how to respond/retaliate. If they choose to flee you may not kill them.
   a. If the user is attacked they may flee and return later (5 minutes maximum) to exact revenge on the assailants as described under killing rule 6.
   b. If the user is subject to an active threat via knife or gunpoint they can choose to retaliate or instead leave peacefully. However they may not return later to attack them without sufficient reason as the previous situation had already ended.
   
   1A shows that i can shoot back but i have up to 5minutes and i went back to shoot in literally 2 minutes and logs can vouch for what im saying.

6: You may kill in self defence or in defence of your partners/faction/property (Must have F3). When you've been attacked by an aggressor and survive (you did not aggravate or bait them to hit you) you may return with a weapon to kill them.

If possible please provide video evidence or photo evidence if PK does not follow the guidelines:

https://medal.tv/games/garrys-mod/clips/nFlTNBHzRI2cFm0pN?invite=cr-MSxsQTEsMjAxODI5NTQy

https://medal.tv/games/garrys-mod/clips/nFlUqd93BOssY-8ce?invite=cr-MSxCOFAsMjAxODI5NTQy

Edited 6 hours ago by Jairzinho
Adding server rules to state my point

[Shook]

brochacho, you dont get pk'd if the cop initiates the violent confrontation. The violent confrontation ended then two minutes later you went and shot the cop. ur retarded, you initiated a NEW violent confrontation.

-1!!!!

[SidoOlavich]

You may not kill someone or escalate a confrontation to murder just for verbal disrespect/argument.
-However if someone continues to disrespect you, you may physically intimidate or hit them. (Fists, melee weapon) As continued disrespect could realistically start a fight. The user then has free choice on how to respond/retaliate. If they choose to flee you may not kill them.
a. If the user is attacked they may flee and return later (5 minutes maximum) to exact revenge on the assailants as described under killing rule 6.
b. If the user is subject to an active threat via knife or gunpoint they can choose to retaliate or instead leave peacefully. However they may not return later to attack them without sufficient reason as the previous situation had already ended.
check letter A out

you berk Shook. he fled, didnt resolve it peacefully did he? lol

na i know what you gona say... he resolved it by shooting back from the driver side, but it was also somehow peaceful... >.>

Edited 21 hours ago by SidoOlavich

[Drakarus]

9 minutes ago, Shook said:

brochacho, you dont get pk'd if the cop initiates the violent confrontation. The violent confrontation ended then two minutes later you went and shot the cop. ur retarded, you initiated a NEW violent confrontation.

-1!!!!

 6: You may kill in self defence or in defence of your partners/faction/property (Must have F3). When you've been attacked by an aggressor and survive (you did not aggravate or bait them to hit you) you may return with a weapon to kill them. +1 Brochacho

[Shook]

1 minute ago, Drakarus said:

 6: You may kill in self defence or in defence of your partners/faction/property (Must have F3). When you've been attacked by an aggressor and survive (you did not aggravate or bait them to hit you) you may return with a weapon to kill them. +1 Brochacho

The violent confrontation with police is its own rule aswell. Since the situation was more than over and u went and blicky'd that nigga i think its fair to say you initiated a new confrontation there. 

DONT YOU EVER DUMB REACT ME AGAIN PIPSQUEAK

[Shook]

4 minutes ago, SidoOlavich said:

You may not kill someone or escalate a confrontation to murder just for verbal disrespect/argument.
-However if someone continues to disrespect you, you may physically intimidate or hit them. (Fists, melee weapon) As continued disrespect could realistically start a fight. The user then has free choice on how to respond/retaliate. If they choose to flee you may not kill them.
a. If the user is attacked they may flee and return later (5 minutes maximum) to exact revenge on the assailants as described under killing rule 6.
b. If the user is subject to an active threat via knife or gunpoint they can choose to retaliate or instead leave peacefully. However they may not return later to attack them without sufficient reason as the previous situation had already ended.
check letter A out

you berk Shook. he fled, didnt resolve it peacefully did he? lol

na i know what you gona say... he resolved it by shooting back from the driver side, but it was also somehow peaceful... >.>

wallahi, he could have got out that car and shot back when he actually got shot, returning minutes later when the situation is gone and the cop didnt even know who he was to kill him was silly on his part.

im not even involved in this, i just had to educate this fool. cop baiting has a price when u miss ur shots 

Edited 21 hours ago by Shook

[SidoOlavich]

you seriously defending a cop who shot at a car driver for what reason?
shit i randomly shoot a car because i hear someone i want but i hit the wrong person? i'd get punished...

bro you a cop main or something? ok with stupid shit from your lowers?

Edited 21 hours ago by SidoOlavich

[Shook]

1 minute ago, SidoOlavich said:

you seriously defending a cop who shot at a car driver for what reason?

no?

[SidoOlavich]

if i shoot at a car thinking someone in it... but im wrong... and hit someone else....

who gets punished? lol

he done it within 120 seconds too, so well within the 5 mins mark
aint no bent cunt who RPs as paul blart above the rules.

shook....

Edited 21 hours ago by SidoOlavich
shook needs his box...

[Suárez]

1 hour ago, Shook said:

wallahi, he could have got out that car and shot back when he actually got shot, returning minutes later when the situation is gone and the cop didnt even know who he was to kill him was silly on his part.

im not even involved in this, i just had to educate this fool. cop baiting has a price when u miss ur shots 

Is it his problem that the cop didn't know who he was but still shot him? I don't see your point, he killed him within the 5 minutes. 

[Suárez]

Just to remind staff that when I asked for a PK on my cop char it got rejected because Konrad Samuel hit someone with his baton 4 minutes ago and the guy just pulled out his gun didn't get to shot and he got mowed down and nothing happened.

[Gr1mmy]

Hello please do not flood this appeal with messages if you aren't involved in the appeal

Aside from that here's the reason why you were Pked for this situation. Not only did you leave the situation but you also re-engaged and shot the officer with no context (Yes he attacked you prior but that situation had resolved when you successfully fled) On the topic of this specific PK I Wasn't sure if it was a PK Myself So i went and got the opinions of other staff.

SuleG
Ka1
Gustavo (Moderator)

When we'd finally come to a decision we noticed a member of UA Was available and also requested his input on the topic. Where 4Lights agreed with me that you'd Left the situation. Fled the area and that interaction was over. You then went and Re-Engaged with them Rdming the cop before being killed by the other officer on the scene.

 

[SidoOlavich]

Hey gr1mmy, first thing first, you be right and sorry on my behalf about it... but secondly, he cant exactly shoot from the driver seat can he? people be talking about hopping out the car to shoot but in all fairness these people probs shoot glocks in a firing range sideways and wonder why they cant hit shit but concrete... let alone cover since they be walking tanks on steroids whom bullets can not kill because milenial plot armour...  the rule states it written down... he fled... its even in laws... to "flee" in a car is a felony resisting otherwise your words here of him "not flee'ing but leaving peacefully" would affect the laws too, would they not?

""When we'd finally come to a decision we noticed a member of UA Was available and also requested his input on the topic. Where 4Lights agreed with me that you'd Left the situation. Fled the area and that interaction was over.""

you also said it yourself... "fled"... he didnt do it at 4 mins or 6 mins thus pushing the boundries... he done it within 2 mins... didnt die between then and now the situation of killing the cop, the cop didnt die, they was waiting around to see....

otherwise im allowed to do this too if i became a cop? you setting a bad standard for when another cop just shoots and hits a person "but its not rdm its just you "fled" but not really you left the situation despite bleeding on the dash of the car and still hurt from the bullet..." he was still hurt from the bullet... it didnt "undo" because he fled...

this is a typical scene of so many accidental rdms and even a standard about the cop doing lethal action FIRST... the only disagreement is "ohh you fled so its ended" when in the rules it states you are allowed to return within 5 mins with a weapon.... it was not tupac's fault nor choice that the cop decided to shoot straight after an order and randomly hit people he did not intend to shoot... otherwise aint that also not giving enough time to obey an order? 5 seconds right?

hell.... Aint that rdm or at the very least a reason to shoot the person within the timelimit? if not remove all our PO's for accidental crossfire please and while you're at it please remove felonies for evading police in cars since its not "flee'ing"... i like that standard actually...

on all the games iv played, iv not seen as much flip-flopping of the rules to help out friends and the like as much as this...

Edited 19 hours ago by SidoOlavich

[Gr1mmy]

The cop shooting him was RDM But him returning and Rdming the cop who wasn't trying to arrest anyone and simply walking down the street at that time caused me to not warn either party as both were in the wrong. At the end of the day if a cop shoots you it's an IC Issue. But you can Actively Respond to it in an Active Situation

On that note He cannot shoot from the drivers seat but if he got out of the car whilst being shot at or at the bottom of the road and THEN Returned fire. Wouldn't have been a PK.

And on that topic walking up to three officers and Gunning one down isn't really "Valuing" One's life when there's two other armed officers next to him

[SidoOlavich]

an rdm is not an IC issue, a cop breaking the rule of not giving enough time to respond is also not an IC issue...
the cop breaking protocol if thats what you mean, i agree with you... but RDM is also against the rules... thus, not ICly... (could ALSO be dealt with ICly but does not have to be... otherwise EVERY rdm can be dealt with ICly but not OOCly...)

the car, he "fled"... you admitted it and admitted the UA used that wording too. are we honestly not allowed to get cover and HAVE to jump out at that spot getting run over 50 fucking times BEFORE i can shoot the cop who's already spam tazed me and arrested me? yea, its THAT spot... outside BL where everyone speed races that stretch lol

since it was still within the  5 mins, a cop doing lethal force first can not lead to a PK if defending oneself.

tupac also said he aint paying shit for this one lol

Edited 19 hours ago by SidoOlavich

[Gr1mmy]

We'll see where it goes. Also the cop shooting you Is an IC issue. If however he killed you then it's an RDM which becomes a staff issue

 

Him simply shooting you Is not rdm

Edited 19 hours ago by Gr1mmy
Additional part

[SidoOlavich]

31 minutes ago, Gr1mmy said:

We'll see where it goes. Also the cop shooting you Is an IC issue. If however he killed you then it's an RDM which becomes a staff issue

 

Him simply shooting you Is not rdm

aye, would be intresting to watch this one... but it was a good discussion with you gr1mmy...
P.S so "attempted" rdm is ok? ;D

[Akira]

+1 UNPK tupac and perma ban sidoolavich

[Gr1mmy]

12 minutes ago, SidoOlavich said:

aye, would be intresting to watch this one... but it was a good discussion with you gr1mmy...
P.S so "attempted" rdm is ok? ;D

Ardm is an IC issue RDM is what we punish but if it's ARDM it can be dealt with in many IC ways 

 

Have a good night

[Cookie Baker]

1 hour ago, Gr1mmy said:

Ardm is an IC issue RDM is what we punish but if it's ARDM it can be dealt with in many IC ways 

 

Have a good night

Hello Grimmy. ARDM is not an IC issue, the following is why;

 I've lived the example. I was given an attempted RDM note for punching somebody during 4th of july, for mic spamming in spawn. I didn't try to kill her whatsoever, but it happened regardless.

ARDM IS an OOC issue. Attempting to kill somebody for no reason is minge behavior. That's why it's called ARDM. Randomly shooting at somebody as a cop, not as a result of poor training but as a result of your arrogance, is ARDM. Randomly stabbing somebody, randomly punching people, all of that is random and unreasonable. Thereby, it's attempted random deathmatch.

 

As for the gunfight, I strongly disagree with this choice by UA; this is well within the designated-by-staff, designed-by-staff criteria of a five minute conflict. Two minutes. It is inconsequential to roleplay if he should survive this confrontation, but it is highly consequential to roleplay if he doesn't, because the point of this rule is to allow for retaliation after the unjust behavior of the police. Shooting back at police within a five minute time period, especially the ones that tried to kill you for no reason at all, can help the victim of the ARDM icly, and this kind of thing without ic consequence for the victim would be a great deterrent to the police randomly shooting at people. Especially, if somebody just drives off and is not(* or no longer a) threat.

3 hours ago, Shook said:

The violent confrontation with police is its own rule aswell. Since the situation was more than over and u went and blicky'd that nigga i think its fair to say you initiated a new confrontation there. 

DONT YOU EVER DUMB REACT ME AGAIN PIPSQUEAK

No. This is a retarded take. "6: You may kill in self defence or in defence of your partners/faction/property (Must have F3). When you've been attacked by an aggressor and survive (you did not aggravate or bait them to hit you) you may return with a weapon to kill them. ". This explicitly states, thereby it is fair to assume from an average person's perspective, with it explicitly written to be the case, that he may return fire later. The police invited this confrontation, it is unfair to become a sudden death trap because you started a problem for no reason.

Edited 17 hours ago by Cookie Baker

[4Lights]

Only comment if you were involved in the situation, we don't need your opinion or input if you were not.

 

You may only comment on an appeal if you were DIRECTLY involved with the situation leading up to the PK. Replies that are not relevant to the situation will result in a forum warning and/or ban.

[JJ_]

Hello, while it is true the officer had attacked you first and It is additionally true that if an officer attacks you first you are not subject to PK if you fight back. The issue lies with how long you waited to retaliate, and how you shown no regard for your characters life.

The aforementioned rule is more in the context of  fighting back before the situation is over. In this instance the situation was over more or less, you got away from the cops. Instead of hiding you decided to just decided to walk up and shoot them after you had already successfully eluded them. This act also shows you were just looking for a reason to kill the cops freely, and showing no regard for your characters life. Any real criminal would not just go kill cops right after successfully evading arrest.

[JJ_]

Your appeal has been reviewed and denied.

We have determined this PK to be reasonable and/or justified.

You may not re-appeal this PK.