Mugging Overhaul.

[Geo_Zeus]

Mugging char this, PK hunting that, i'm sure most of the community is tired of this discourse floating around every other week. I think the mugging system and rules are flawed in some ways and a bit of an overhaul will lead to an overall net positive for the community.

I want to preface this by saying, I do not believe my point of view in the matter is particularly biased in any side of the mugging. I do not have any interests in mugging people and haven't done so in years and the last time I was mugged was back in 2022. Hopefully that absolves the "mugger trying to get a buff" or "Dude got mugged and is crying about it" replies and we can all get together and focus on a change that can be even for both sides.

NEW SYSTEM

First of all, the server needs a system for muggers to be able to steal people's pocket money. Of course it would need to be balanced as to not make mugging insanely profitable and cause an uproar. The way I'm thinking about it is; If the person getting mugged has 2000$ or less you can mug all of it, if they have more than 2000$ you can mug the 2000$ + a percentage of the remaining money they have on them(for example if the person has 5000$ on them and the percentage is set at 50%, the mugger will get 2000$ + 3000 * 0.5= 3500$. A hard-cap should be implemented to a specific amount that is deemed fair(a good amount would be a hard-cap of 8000$ imo).
What's great about a built-in mechanic is that it can also be moderated much easier. For example the logs could clearly show timing between muggings or the system could have a cooldown tied to the person using it.

MUGGING NERFS

Clothing items should not be muggable, they are one of the main reason mugging is so profitable and one of the main reason why someone would break the rules during a mugging(e.g low-risk, high-reward mugging characters, LTARP to not lose valuable clothing etc.). If the new system suggested is to be added, and clothing becomes un-muggable, mugging can get more balanced profits and the person that gets mugged will have little to no incentive to not rp the mugging.
That being said, maybe accessories like chains, hats, rings, watches etc. should remain muggable for the sake of the RP(it's entirely unrealistic to be all jeweled up at all times and in a situation where you can be mugged). 

ADRESSING PKs IN MUGGINGS

I believe breaking FearRP during a mugging should not be met with a PK, it should be treated as a "harsher" FailRP/NITR violation. The easiest way to PK somebody is to mug them. Mugging rule 17 states "You may not mug the same person more than once within a span of 30 minutes." and for a group of people trying to PK hunt that makes it way too easy to do so.
With the current rules a person could make a brand new character, get a gun, find someone to mug and potentially get a 100k+ profit out of it, while the person getting mugged by this new, worthless character has 2 options; Retaliate and possibly lose your character or just hand over all your valuables to this new worthless character that has nothing to lose. I believe the way the punishments should be are as follows(provided that the afformentioned changes have been implemented);

-If a person is alone and held at gun point during a mugging, any attempt at retaliation should be faced with a FailRP and NITR punishment. 
-A person attempting to mug someone is to be PKed ONLY by a person or a group associated with the person being mugged while the mugging is taking place.
-If there is more than 1 mugger and a person or group associated with the person being mugged attempts to retaliate(aka each party has more than 1 person involved) that should escalate to a "group conflict" where no PKs are administered.
 

Let me know what you agree with, what you disagree with, what should be added or removed etc.

[Giacomo Barone]

+1

What kind of mugger is stripping their victim naked lmao, just accessories makes sense

[Hg0tros]

I actually read the whole thing, making clothes non-muggable and saying actions during a mug don’t count as FearRP or PK doesn’t really make sense to me. From a roleplay perspective, going against people who are trying to rob you is literally putting your life at risk, so I definitely think it should count as PK.

As for the money system, I think it makes sense, but if they add a rule like that, everyone’s just gonna keep their money in the bank and stop carrying cash.

Instead of this, Im more in favor of fixing the inconsistencies in the Mug Char and Mass Mugging rules. The main reason is that there are a lot of players whove been in the community for a long time, follow all the RP rules, but still end up getting perma banned because of how flexible and unclear the mugging rules are. Even right now, there are a couple ban appeals pending from well-known and respected members of the community because of this.
 

Edited yesterday at 03:08 PM by Hg0tros

[GlamourPunk]

-1

this sounds lame

[Rifsfth]

So your saying I wouldn't be able carry 10 million dollars around with me everywhere I go anymore...

[Geo_Zeus]

32 minutes ago, Hg0tros said:

I actually read the whole thing, making clothes non-muggable and saying actions during a mug don’t count as FearRP or PK doesn’t really make sense to me. From a roleplay perspective, going against people who are trying to rob you is literally putting your life at risk, so I definitely think it should count as PK.

I agree with that, the only reason I suggested it is cause I don't agree with the balance of the rules right now and I think those changed would help even stuff out you know?

[Cash]

-1 This just ruins mugging as a whole. Mugging is a calculated risk with a high danger but a high reward. Mugging is super dangerous but if you die during a mugging your faction should try and press the muggers if they know who they are. This just ruins so much risk on the server

[Mike Brown]

The real question is why does custom clothing hold so much value? Doesn’t that just make the server pay to win? You pay a couple hundred for a custom clothing item then sell it for millions of in game dollars. Just seems a bit retarded, and in terms of getting a nitrp ban I think most people would prefer a temporary ban than losing a character that they’ve spent 100+ hours grinding on. 

[ix_crazy_xi]

didnt read it cba i love having mugging chars

[Mike Brown]

5 hours ago, Giacomo Barone said:

+1

What kind of mugger is stripping their victim naked lmao, just accessories makes sense

Clearly you’ve never been to Brazil  

[Giacomo Barone]

3 hours ago, Cash said:

-1 This just ruins mugging as a whole. Mugging is a calculated risk with a high danger but a high reward. Mugging is super dangerous but if you die during a mugging your faction should try and press the muggers if they know who they are. This just ruins so much risk on the server

I agree with that, actually, wish there was more you could do for revenge though. 15 minutes is barely enough time to get other people on board, much less get revenge.

[Giacomo Barone]

2 hours ago, Mike Brown said:

Clearly you’ve never been to Brazil  

I guess not lol, but we're in New York not Brazil

[Hans Hunnebun]

7 hours ago, Geo_Zeus said:

 

NEW SYSTEM

First of all, the server needs a system for muggers to be able to steal people's pocket money. Of course it would need to be balanced as to not make mugging insanely profitable and cause an uproar. The way I'm thinking about it is; If the person getting mugged has 2000$ or less you can mug all of it, if they have more than 2000$ you can mug the 2000$ + a percentage of the remaining money they have on them(for example if the person has 5000$ on them and the percentage is set at 50%, the mugger will get 2000$ + 3000 * 0.5= 3500$. A hard-cap should be implemented to a specific amount that is deemed fair(a good amount would be a hard-cap of 8000$ imo).
What's great about a built-in mechanic is that it can also be moderated much easier. For example the logs could clearly show timing between muggings or the system could have a cooldown tied to the person using it.

 

I agree with this section of what you've stated, but everything else is kinda dumb. Would be cool to maybe have a c menu option where we could take whatevers in peoples pockets up to like a 5k cap or something like that.

[Medinator]

6 hours ago, Giacomo Barone said:

I agree with that, actually, wish there was more you could do for revenge though. 15 minutes is barely enough time to get other people on board, much less get revenge.

Hear me out here....if someone mugs another person and that person has undeniable IC proof that theyre the mugger WHAT IF they could send a hit on them anytime after the mug as long as they have undoubtable IC evidence (video of them in the act of mugging their faction members / video of the person bragging of the mugging etc) mugging overall has very little repercussions after the 15 minutes and if there was a long term risk, there would be more natural mugs with actual sense around it not just bragging in advert/ic to the factions face about doing the act because of the fact nothing can happen after the 15 minute point which just makes 0 sense in RP aspects

just a brainstorm and even if this was in place itd be very rare to truly get ic proof that theyre the culprit UNLESS they act completely reckless (which is usually how it goes today) this change would just make people actually not act retarded after the fact and actually have more strategic values of masks, staying low key instead of shit talking/bragging to the people they mugged, working with people and not just going around mugging every person in sight etc

this is would also create a more natural escalation / drama around factions

Edited 18 hours ago by Medinator

[Orsini]

 "-If a person is alone and held at gun point during a mugging, any attempt at retaliation should be faced with a FailRP and NITR punishment. 
-A person attempting to mug someone is to be PKed ONLY by a person or a group associated with the person being mugged while the mugging is taking place.
-If there is more than 1 mugger and a person or group associated with the person being mugged attempts to retaliate(aka each party has more than 1 person involved) that should escalate to a "group conflict" where no PKs are administered." So you are saying that the mugger gets PKed for getting killed, but not the guy that gets killed by the mugger if he pulls out a gun on the mugger. I think you said fair rules but I don't see them.      -1

[Auxiliary]

Neutral.

I believe many, if not the entire community, has some sort of grievance with the current mugging system. I believe this suggestion to remove clothing mugging is a good idea and I can agree with that, but I fail to understand the thought process with removing and changing the FearRP aspect of mugging. From your FearRP changes that you're suggesting, it seems to me like you're attempting to make it so that it is physically impossible to prevent yourself from getting mugged once it has been initiated, while also removing all of the PK risk. Mugging is not necessarily an aspect of the server in order to be a primary way of making money, but to add a risk factor to the server, where slipping up in the wrong area could lead to you losing money or your life. From the way I am interpreting your suggestion, you are wanting to remove this risk factor almost entirely, only allowing for PK's to be administered when someone comes randomly to the defense of the victim of the mugging, which in my opinion will do nothing but encourage discord metagaming to prevent a mugging from occurring.

The current mugging system is well balanced in my opinion. As a consequence for absent-mindedly walking through dangerous areas of crime ridden cities, you have some items robbed off of  your character. If these items are imperative to your character or if they hold a high enough value, you actually have an opportunity to try and prevent them from being stolen, albeit you may be permanently killed for doing so. In my opinion, the mugging process itself is completely fine. The issue presented about mugging 99% of the time is that people get upset and claim that mugging once or twice a week is "minging" and "mugging abuse", and get upset when they're caught not being careful in bad areas. Changing the clothing aspect of mugging to increase realism would be a good change to roleplay in my opinion. Stripping people naked in alleyways is pretty unrealistic when you're trying to sell their clothes.

[TroubledGhost]

13 hours ago, Medinator said:

Hear me out here....if someone mugs another person and that person has undeniable IC proof that theyre the mugger WHAT IF they could send a hit on them anytime after the mug as long as they have undoubtable IC evidence (video of them in the act of mugging their faction members / video of the person bragging of the mugging etc) mugging overall has very little repercussions after the 15 minutes and if there was a long term risk, there would be more natural mugs with actual sense around it not just bragging in advert/ic to the factions face about doing the act because of the fact nothing can happen after the 15 minute point which just makes 0 sense in RP aspects

just a brainstorm and even if this was in place itd be very rare to truly get ic proof that theyre the culprit UNLESS they act completely reckless (which is usually how it goes today) this change would just make people actually not act retarded after the fact and actually have more strategic values of masks, staying low key instead of shit talking/bragging to the people they mugged, working with people and not just going around mugging every person in sight etc

this is would also create a more natural escalation / drama around factions

Finding IC evidence will be really difficult, as they happen randomly to people who are usually alone, pulling out a camera during a mug isnt it and if people are nearby then you cant mug a person. The only thing that really ties someone to a mugging is if they take a specific item from them (typically clothes) that they are known for only wearing and they try sell it and get caught with it with poor excuses for why they have em. But yes i agree.

 

It may make sense to extend mugging to, instead of 15 minutes cooldown, to something more like maybe hours long or, heck, maybe a day even. But to negate the fact someone can 'be offline for the duration of this timer', what if we impliment that **once someone is mugged and a timer has officially started, the timer only consumes time via playtime (i.e the mugger has to be online for the timer to go down)**

So if it's like 6 hours, they need 6 hours of playtime to avoid the mugging.

 

But when it comes to being PKd, then perhaps they can only be PKd by someone they mugged only (to negate being PK'd if they were killed by someone else during that time).

 

This would definitely make mugging more difficult in the long run for muggers as they would have a longer cooldown which they must be online to serve.

 

 

[Geo_Zeus]

16 hours ago, Orsini said:

 "-If a person is alone and held at gun point during a mugging, any attempt at retaliation should be faced with a FailRP and NITR punishment. 
-A person attempting to mug someone is to be PKed ONLY by a person or a group associated with the person being mugged while the mugging is taking place.
-If there is more than 1 mugger and a person or group associated with the person being mugged attempts to retaliate(aka each party has more than 1 person involved) that should escalate to a "group conflict" where no PKs are administered." So you are saying that the mugger gets PKed for getting killed, but not the guy that gets killed by the mugger if he pulls out a gun on the mugger. I think you said fair rules but I don't see them.      -1

Yes aka if the mugger is not careful and is caught by a third person that knows the person getting mugged, it's a PK. That's because if that is not the case then there's 0 risk for a mugger. For the person getting mugged, i am suggesting an even worse punishment than the mugger. I am saying that the option of retaliation while a gun is pointed at your face and you're alone is completely unrealistic and should instead be treated as a FailRP and NITRP ban.

Edited 7 hours ago by Geo_Zeus

[Geo_Zeus]

12 hours ago, Auxiliary said:

Neutral.

I believe many, if not the entire community, has some sort of grievance with the current mugging system. I believe this suggestion to remove clothing mugging is a good idea and I can agree with that, but I fail to understand the thought process with removing and changing the FearRP aspect of mugging. From your FearRP changes that you're suggesting, it seems to me like you're attempting to make it so that it is physically impossible to prevent yourself from getting mugged once it has been initiated, while also removing all of the PK risk. Mugging is not necessarily an aspect of the server in order to be a primary way of making money, but to add a risk factor to the server, where slipping up in the wrong area could lead to you losing money or your life. From the way I am interpreting your suggestion, you are wanting to remove this risk factor almost entirely, only allowing for PK's to be administered when someone comes randomly to the defense of the victim of the mugging, which in my opinion will do nothing but encourage discord metagaming to prevent a mugging from occurring.

The current mugging system is well balanced in my opinion. As a consequence for absent-mindedly walking through dangerous areas of crime ridden cities, you have some items robbed off of  your character. If these items are imperative to your character or if they hold a high enough value, you actually have an opportunity to try and prevent them from being stolen, albeit you may be permanently killed for doing so. In my opinion, the mugging process itself is completely fine. The issue presented about mugging 99% of the time is that people get upset and claim that mugging once or twice a week is "minging" and "mugging abuse", and get upset when they're caught not being careful in bad areas. Changing the clothing aspect of mugging to increase realism would be a good change to roleplay in my opinion. Stripping people naked in alleyways is pretty unrealistic when you're trying to sell their clothes.

The PK suggestions are aimed to combat abuse(i.e pk hunting) and to balance the entirety of mugging that, imo, is balanced on the mugger's side.

[Dimes]

19 hours ago, Giacomo Barone said:

I guess not lol, but we're in New York not Brazil

I've seen a mf robbed and stripped in NYC real spill

[Dimes]

PAUSE

[Giacomo Barone]

50 minutes ago, Dimes said:

PAUSE

 

5 hours ago, TroubledGhost said:

Finding IC evidence will be really difficult, as they happen randomly to people who are usually alone, pulling out a camera during a mug isnt it and if people are nearby then you cant mug a person. The only thing that really ties someone to a mugging is if they take a specific item from them (typically clothes) that they are known for only wearing and they try sell it and get caught with it with poor excuses for why they have em. But yes i agree.

 

It may make sense to extend mugging to, instead of 15 minutes cooldown, to something more like maybe hours long or, heck, maybe a day even. But to negate the fact someone can 'be offline for the duration of this timer', what if we impliment that **once someone is mugged and a timer has officially started, the timer only consumes time via playtime (i.e the mugger has to be online for the timer to go down)**

So if it's like 6 hours, they need 6 hours of playtime to avoid the mugging.

 

But when it comes to being PKd, then perhaps they can only be PKd by someone they mugged only (to negate being PK'd if they were killed by someone else during that time).

 

This would definitely make mugging more difficult in the long run for muggers as they would have a longer cooldown which they must be online to serve.

 

 

This but instead of only being able to be PKd by the person they mugged, it should be anyone in the faction. We're playing MafiaRP, if someone high up gets mugged, they're not gonna go kill the person themselves, they're gonna send an enforcer to do it instead. But otherwise 100% agree

[Auxiliary]

5 hours ago, Geo_Zeus said:

The PK suggestions are aimed to combat abuse(i.e pk hunting) and to balance the entirety of mugging that, imo, is balanced on the mugger's side.

I see where you're attempting to prevent the PK hunting that does already exist, but I believe there's a much better medium rather than jumping straight to almost no risk on either side of a PK. I fail to see where mugging is balanced on the mugger's side however. Mugging is already restricted heavily in the rules, limiting mugging to only happen in certain areas and only to happen when someone is caught without a gun out in a private spot. On top of that, if the victim can find the mugger within 15 minutes with valid evidence of their identity, they are subject to a PK. As it stands, mugging for both sides is very risky. If anything, in my opinion, mugging is favorable towards the victim. An all-around deterrent of mugging is to simply have a weapon out in a yellow/red mugging zone, and that makes it so that it is impossible to be mugged. On top of that, if a mug is initiated, you have a chance to PK the person mugging you by breaking FearRP.

[Hans Hunnebun]

22 hours ago, Medinator said:

Hear me out here....if someone mugs another person and that person has undeniable IC proof that theyre the mugger WHAT IF they could send a hit on them anytime after the mug as long as they have undoubtable IC evidence (video of them in the act of mugging their faction members / video of the person bragging of the mugging etc) mugging overall has very little repercussions after the 15 minutes and if there was a long term risk, there would be more natural mugs with actual sense around it not just bragging in advert/ic to the factions face about doing the act because of the fact nothing can happen after the 15 minute point which just makes 0 sense in RP aspects

just a brainstorm and even if this was in place itd be very rare to truly get ic proof that theyre the culprit UNLESS they act completely reckless (which is usually how it goes today) this change would just make people actually not act retarded after the fact and actually have more strategic values of masks, staying low key instead of shit talking/bragging to the people they mugged, working with people and not just going around mugging every person in sight etc

this is would also create a more natural escalation / drama around factions

I agree with this, and I have an idea that might help. Since there are really not many ways to track down someone who committed a mugging, we need more ways to get IC proof. Maybe to help with this and add to the server's roleplay, we might be able to get something added that maybe could be left on scene and taken by only the people in the faction that got mugged/mugger", even by only using maybe a /me to get the evidence, or maybe an IC item. For example, maybe the perpetrator didn't wear gloves when restraining a victim and left fingerprints on them or some type of DNA to be captured. After being restrained, maybe somebody could do something like this, "/me uses a Fingerprint testing Kit on restraints to test for fingerprint. Then have the staff decide the outcome whether they had gloves on or not(a clip might help). Whether the mugger had gloves or didn't. This could even be a way for factions to use corrupt cops to potentially find out whose DNA/Fingerprints it was and if they are in the system through RP. I'm not saying that this is the only way this could be done, but I think it's something to think about and could be an alternative to finding out who mugged someone while adding RP and helping people get revenge on their muggers. Once you have 100% undeniable proof that someone mugged you through this, you could call the staff and have them set PK active.

As for how this could work, maybe up to 15-30 minutes after the mugging occurred, someone could use a Fingerprint testing kit or something of the matter that could be used to collect the evidence. Maybe there could be some type of "Fingerprint Testing Kit" at the barge that someone could buy and use IC to collect information. This item, when used, might do a /me that says "testing for Fingerprints" or something of the nature, and then add a "Fingerprint slide" to your inventory when used. Then, when staff are available, they can rule whether the evidence is credible, and can be used ic, as they do have the logs to show(or clip). 

I'm not saying that this is the only way, but just giving an example. The current state of mugging is very straightforward, and not a whole lot can be done to muggers. If there was more IC ways to get evidence, then maybe people could find muggers and stop metagaming from occurring. Instead of metagaming and flooding someones dm's after a mugging, they could go IC and try to see if they could collect information somehow and figure out who the mugger is. Something like this would actually provide more real RP to the server and could help all around, in my opinion.