RevampedRebel

The application did not age well. -1

Fuck the 20s. Let's go back to the 1820s and peddle slaves.

brother I literally included the fact its happening to crims too can we get past attaching IC to OOC shit and take this at face value?

Lately it just feels like powergame is being defined insanely broadly. I've read the rules but it seems like on all sides of RP lately be it crim or gov is just being widely voided. You can't use the laws as they're written if they're gonna hurt someone above made (even made cases get voided too really). If the case feels like it might have lasting meaningful effects due to faction negligence, that's worth a void. This one is actually happening a lot lately. Charges stemming from negligence will be dropped especially when dealing with technicalities -- a staple of law that was used to bring historically relevant mobsters to justice. The server has gotten insanely soft on this issue. You can't send UC's without meeting a long laundry list of criteria but if they're from an enemy alliance on an alt char that's powergame but it's conflict to send em if they have an allied alt (don't even get started on the cross-char consequences too that's a can of worms on its own). Engaging in lawfare will likely result in a void. You can't weaponize the court system as a mobster or scumbag lawyer anymore especially when it comes to large sums of money from long established characters or government officials. This argument isn't even complaining about how hard it is for the gov to sue factions it's actually the other way around. Even now cases against the gov are being voided for powergame. LegalRP has been a diverge staple and hallmark but it's constantly being eroded. Detectives being hamstringed. DA's office having its time wasted. And now even crim/civ lawyers can't bring cases to be a menace anymore. Nothing feels IC its always having to fight your case with UA and the Court at the same time it's just not fun anymore lately. Anyone have clarity or a way to fix this problem reasonably?

More or less we need SOMETHING we can try to build or use against a faction that can have lasting impact if successful. There's just nothing the gov can meaningfully do against a faction these days.

Honestly this might be the best middle ground. Lotta factions that have been circling the drain for years while also holding a gun racket need to go get fucked with HARD.

Every time this gets suggested it gets denied. Kinda gay and cringe that people prefer the broken and unenforceable system instead.

women were seen and not heard back in the 80's and i do gotta say that i be hearing them an awful lot. valve pls fix. +1

who has a 1000TB hdd with recordings of literally everything theyve ever seen or done ever

Two wrongs dont make a right on that one imo the standard should be raised on both sides of the equation and equally if one side is going to get buffed the other side needs something too. Like I had suggested, adding the ability for faction leadership to reign in who can access what would be huge. Faction leaders also already do have access to many tools needed to prevent the building of these cases like using middlemen (see Vinny Lucchese using Vincent Lucchese as the legal front man for his faction, that is exemplary work since Vincent doesn't do crimes but is still active) and keeping operational separation from himself and the lower rung doing crimes. Much qualms as I have with Lucchese as a faction, they are an example of good opsec. Of course there may be people in the factioon that break the opsec by bank sharing or using banks at all for storage but like individual catches are nowhere even remotely close enough to fully build a RICO case. These cases need you to do a long line of serious fuckups and not policing information (yapping to the lower people about sensitive shit). TL;DR there is SO MUCH you can do to prevent these crimes from working out. They only work out when you get really sloppy. If one lower level person is able to cause a significant enough level of damage to build this kind of case, you might need to look back at all the places leadership went wrong. Yeah I can imagine though that was a time in diverge I'm not so quick to want to return to. Keeping RICO exclusive to a very small group, having a very high bar as far as what you need to accomplish to make it work, and even maybe a requirement for UA approval before using the mechanisms could balance out those concerns. UA gets involved even in detective operations fairly often from what I've gathered and experienced. I wouldn't personally mind them being involved in when the lever is allowed to be pulled. Mind, even them granting the okay to go through with the execution does not automatically win the case either it still needs to go to court AND be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. With all the above in mind, I think we might be able to craft a new system with accountability and safety measures put in place to prevent abuse.

I literally knew a guy who did some shit with his PAC3 that even on server with limitations on pac he was able to use it as an esp. No Bueno.

Like I've said in other posts I do agree that it needs to be balanced and not rapey. They'd a misconception that they're short and easy investigations, they're not. It's not based off of simple association it's being able to prove definitively that a group is both committing crimes and running a legal front to launder funds. Association is a part of that but it's not loose association it needs to be proven that everyone involved is actually a part of the criminal activity. It's further than "they all wear the same color bandanas and hang out at the same bar" but more "they all either deal drugs, arrange drug deals, or collect money from drug deals all together".

The affiliation isn't the crux of how it works. It's a game of follow the money. Pretty much if you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt where the money is going and prove that it's dirty money then yeah. It's not a case of minge runs from cops 30 times and works at your store therefore life in prison. The bar is notoriously high to win it.

Generally being arrested is one's own fault like yeah UC's can be fatal tho but how much do you truly think that's happening I could understand that. I wasn't at it particularly long as Don but that shit did legitimately fucking suck. Lotta moving parts. More or less if you have yourself air gapped as far as the business and properties go legally it would be hard to attack them. Even more so if the on paper owner is a legit char kinda like how Lucchese does it putting their stuff on Vincent. That's an example of difficult to catch by RICO. A case like that might only go from middle down at best with how they're arranged and even then it would still be a LONG and tedious investigation.

The difference is these factions take fresh players and dump em in the wild with little to no training or rp. That or the new hires go straight into the racket without permission which in itself is kinda goofy and alr leaves factions open to a world of shit. If you read thru everything, you'd have seen the part that explicitly prevents that abuse by simply restricting your rackets. And that goes doubly for the gun racket factions. Giving leadership the ability to police their shit is valuable. RICO doesn't kick in with one single person the investigations are long and complex. You'd need to identify everyone from the middle up definitively which is a challenge in itself. Then proving that they are the direct beneficiaries of crimes that are either arranged by them or on their behalf by others. You'd need to prove past, present, and future crimes. The bar is insanely high and even moreso when you factor in safeguards meant to prevent it's abuse. Even as it stands right now you can't snitch on a faction without UA halting things to check on shit. In the last week I've already seen a law get retconned because I was gonna blow a faction up with it which granted it was a little OP as it was written. Shit actively has UA involved in it as it is. The FBI bit wouldn't be mega cop with tanks and helicopters that shit would still be deferred to on ESU most likely in an ideal model. Pretty much this just lines up factions that don't take the time to teach their new and old people operational security.

Not even asking for an asshole stretcher law I'm literally asking for a watered down version that gives the police tools to handle fucked up factions. Alternatively if we could implement the law but without the feds that still works.

Based

Bringing them back with balances to prevent abuse could be a nice middle ground imo

That's exactly what I'm asking for. I'm not tryna get ezpz faction nuke button I'm trying to get a deterrent to poor practices. Most factions should easily be able to avoid ever having to worry about it.

The fun part of having fictional laws is that they can be tuned to not be powergame rape

Literally like if we're gonna shift things to make police more powerful we do need to have better measures to control those at the bottom to prevent several forms of abuse. Why should a freshie that joined 30 minutes ago be given access to a supplier that his management never introduced him to? If he wants to do drugs before his faction gave him the import connection, maybe he should go grind weed in the ghetto.

I'm not even saying give it razor sharp teeth. But like if you constantly fuck around you should find out at some point with some level of finality imo.

Would actually prefer this option ngl I'd actually be down to erase this whole suggestion and replace it with this

Every faction has pretty much one consolidated goal: hire as many fucking retarded people as possible to grind bricks for the Don. They do this with limited consequences. You work the door for half an hour without any rp, maybe even less than that, then you're an oil bitch for a week or two before you get into drugs. These factions hire and don't punish some of the most questionable individuals that get caught every 10 min doing shit. The staggering amount of people who operate with little to no operational security, die, and come back in a week is mind blowing. Before this gets mass downvoted hear me out please. This isn't just a "buff pd nerf crims" post. If thought out and implemented correctly it can bring an increase in faction rp quality, gives prenatal Tylenol victims something to do, and ideally it would give dons and high command more faction management tools. 1) Implement a system for faction high command to control who gets access to drugs and/or guns. If we're gonna invite a chance that a faction can take some significant damage from poor opsec, it's best that they get the ability to pick and choose who of their people can partake in the activities most vital and dangerous to their continued existence. The meat and potatoes of a RICO case is establishing that a criminal enterprise exists and a pattern of crimes from the past present and planned future crimes. In order for a RICO case to work, you'd have to have fucked up very severely as the bar to prove them is pretty high. Therefore if you're gonna mass hire muscle, best make sure there are tools to allow management to at least macro manage these guys. 2) Have bingus cook up the RICO act. Straightforward stuff. He'd have to weigh out the balance to ensure it's not powergame rape nonsense but still give it teeth. If you're gonna hire a fucking mong white shirt with a bat who selects hands instead of keys every time to then go represent your group in drug deals with potential lasting consequences, that's literally on those who hire. Rather than trying to run a zerg of brick grinders, rp with your new hires and thoroughly feel them out and train them. If the cops are so far up your ass that they're able to prove a RICO case against you that's literally a consequence of poor operational security. Bank sharing en masse? That's literally on your people. Murders in broad daylight? That's literally on your people. Your guys wearing your colors while felony maxxing in broad daylight (and probably doing it in your company car)? That's literally on your people. Having properties owned by a middleman to keep heat off the Don is good shit. Having businesses run by people not the Don is good shit. There are so many measures to take to prevent a RICO case that if it happens and totally dunks on your people it's not the fault of the police and courts for ripping your nuts off. 3) Da Fedz Ah yes I know what you're thinking: isn't this basically detectives+? Kind of but the difference would be that they explicitly would be limited in numbers (call it 5 for sake of balance) but given more legal powers to punish lazy or stupid factions. Being able to get records requests faster and easier, being able to expedite processes of seizure and suspension, and charges they bring coming with some significant fines and jail time for those on the other side of it. Will they be weaponized against disliked factions? No because it comes with the caveats: no former don characters, no characters over senior associate at all in any faction, preference for gov mains, and they aren't allowed to press city level charges only state (and possibly fed?) charges. The balance comes from their numbers. It forces the group to need to be on top of their shit and cull people who aren't doing their job. It would be meant for only the best of the best. The idea in my head is that there needs to be a legitimate threat to factions that aren't careful and enforcing careful operations. Having outside hit contracts, enforcing decorum, and being generally slick gives you nothing much to worry about. But opening yourself up for a colonoscopy should result in one being scheduled whether you want it or not. Thoughts?

Being a cop main this is so real. I can go through vast lengths to catch someone, get warrants, make docs and shit so their court case moves forward, just for the char to be deleted and remade with a slightly different name. It's to the point some cops don't even pursue it because there's an attitude of "what's the point". People making chars to felony max just to basically remake the character after the 20th time you kill him gets old. Obv felony maxxers gives patrol shit to do I suppose? But when that's the extent of the rp it gets old. It's not just Howard and genderswap (which is another can of worms) but a lot of people on that shit. Then onto people like Genderswap and the 90000 other people who either have female models with obvious masculine voices rping trans ppl or femboys or weird shit OR retarded names but are allowed to get away with it. I've seen a ton of people get forced to change their name to something reasonable but names like Genderswap and Loosehole/Tighthole and many more are okay to continue with their names. My first impression of names like that is "yeah they don't give a fuck about this character". Id be infinitely more okay with names like Dixon Cider or Buster Cherry than the aforementioned. Weird uneven enforcement. Kinda curious on your take. What factions are you talking about?