Andy Ban Appeal

[Akira]

Your Character or Steam Name: Andy "Noir" Moris
Your SteamID (Click to retrieve): STEAM_0:1:439522528
Your Discord ID#: xsfqn
Reason for ban: RDM Bait??
Length of ban: 1D
Reason for appeal (dispute/apology): Dispute
Why should you be unbanned?: Because it was not a RDM Bait.

1. I was walking from Wright's pharmacy towards Little Italy when an unknown person noticed me and pointed a gun directly at my face.
2. I asked him why he was pointing a gun at me and he replied "Nobody is putting up anything in your face man, "FUCK OFF"
   If he had answered respectfully, I would have said "my bad" and left the area. However, after being insulted and told to fuck off, I replied with "or what?"
    
3. He then escalated the situation further by saying, "Or I'll fuck you up man, get outta here."
   I was roleplaying as a Black character living in the 1990s who had just been threatened and disrespected. If my goal was to RDM or bait someone into shooting me, I would have pulled out my gun immediately instead of following the Escalation Rules.
    
4. After receiving a direct threat, I replied with "Try that shit" and attempted to throw a punch.
5. As I started walking away, he said, "You missed, retarded." I turned back BECAUSE he INSULTED ME AGAIN. and i replied, "You don't even have the balls to fight like a real man, you fucking nerd."
6. When I pushed his door, he pulled out his gun and SHOT me in the legs. Only after being shot i pull out my own weapon and return fire.

I would also like to mention that the player returned to the scene immediately after dying. He came back, interacted with me and locked the door back (because door was left open when he died) and break the NLR Rules. If he denies this, the logs should show that the time of his death and the time he locked the door again are very close to each other.

What I do not understand is, if the other player was uncomfortable with the situation or did not want to engage in that type of roleplay, why did he insult me, threaten me, and escalate the situation further? He could have continued the escalation without immediately resorting to gunfire. When I attempted to punch him, he had the option to fight back physically instead of shooting me. If he had chosen to continue the roleplay with a fist fight, I would have accepted that outcome and moved on. Instead of choosing any of those options, he decided to resolve the situation by trying to kill me. Does defending myself and returning fire after being shot really make this RDM bait? 

I only reacted to the options that were presented to me in character as the roleplay developed naturally. At no point was my goal to Bait someone into shooting me or create a reason to Kill another player. 

To summarize, he tried to kill me and failed. I defended myself and returned fire only after being shot. Around thirty minutes later, I was banned for RDM bait. I believe I followed all Escalation and Killing Rules correctly and simply reacted to the situation as it developed through roleplay. I want to ROLEPLAY, and ignoring a roleplay situation would make no sense when roleplay is the reason I am here. I am fully aware of the Killing Rules and Escalation Rules, and I have read them many times. I understand that, from an outside perspective, this situation may look like RDM bait, but that was never my intention. As I mentioned before, I was simply minding my own business when an unexpected roleplay situation happened.

When I asked the staff member which part of the clip was considered RDM bait, I was told to make an appeal instead of receiving an explanation. I also requested a second opinion from another staff member because I believed the decision was incorrect, but my request was ignored.

Additional Information (images, videos, etc):
https://medal.tv/games/garrys-mod/clips/mVDjrPAArgqAjN9c_?invite=cr-MSw3ZDcsMjcyODgyOTUw&v=54
 

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Akira
This was all written by me, i only used GPT for grammar checking nothing else.

[Faith]

ive never seen so much effort for a 1day wowsa 

[Akira]

2 minutes ago, Faith said:

ive never seen so much effort for a 1day wowsa 

A 1 day ban is not the issue for me, and honestly whether it gets removed or not is not my main concern. What matters to me is that I have been playing on this server for a long time, and I do not want my record to be marked for something I believe is unfair.

This is important to me because in the past my record has been a reason I could not become staff. For months I have been playing very carefully in case I might get another chance in the future, and I do not want to lose that opportunity over what I believe is a misunderstanding.

[Mr McFarland]

Hello, banning admin here. The reason I determined this to be RDM bait is that you had no legitimate RP-related reason to follow and repeatedly pester the other player in the manner that you did. Based on the situation, I concluded that you were attempting to provoke a reaction from them, which constitutes baiting an RP scenario into a negative outcome. As a result, your actions were deemed RDM bait and handled accordingly.

[Akira]

11 minutes ago, Mr McFarland said:

Hello, banning admin here. The reason I determined this to be RDM bait is that you had no legitimate RP-related reason to follow and repeatedly pester the other player in the manner that you did. Based on the situation, I concluded that you were attempting to provoke a reaction from them, which constitutes baiting an RP scenario into a negative outcome. As a result, your actions were deemed RDM bait and handled accordingly.

With all due respect, this is completely wrong. As I said, I was minding my own business and walking towards Little Italy through the alleyway. The guy next to me saw me coming out of there, pulled out his weapon and aimed it at me. After that, I interacted with him and he repeatedly insulted, disrespected, and threatened me.

After that situation, if I had just turned around and walked away without responding, I would have looked like a BITCH so instead I tried to escalate the situation in accordance with the rules. I threw a punch, but when the other player continued to disrespect me without giving a fuck, as someone who had already escalated, I then retaliated/responded freely based on Rule 2 of the Killing Rules, since my escalation attempt had failed.

I dont understand what I was expected to do in that situation. Am I supposed to just stand there accept insults and threat??, and walk away without reacting?????? I followed the escalation properly and responded within roleplay based on what was happening at the time. I never had any intention of RDM baiting someone. I was insulted and threatened in character (IC).

Also i asked you on sit which of my actions you considered RDM bait, or I requested a second staff opinion because I didn’t agree with your judgment, but in both cases I didn’t receive any response. Without giving me a chance to report that the other player didn't comply NLR rules, you simply said “if you have an appeal, go make one” and just banned me.
 

[flaremonkey]

4 hours ago, Mr McFarland said:

Hello, banning admin here. The reason I determined this to be RDM bait is that you had no legitimate RP-related reason to follow and repeatedly pester the other player in the manner that you did. Based on the situation, I concluded that you were attempting to provoke a reaction from them, which constitutes baiting an RP scenario into a negative outcome. As a result, your actions were deemed RDM bait and handled accordingly.

I just saw this and um bro the guy gave him no warning to stop what he was doing with the door also bottom shotta gambino what if he ended up killin andy what then?

 

[calink]

Hi,

With things like this it is often a case-by-case. With this one, it would seem fair to me to say that the TM did not necessarily invite conflict in the first place. The conflict begins with the gun pointing, which was minor, but worth bringing up in RP. He does so, and I would imagine had the other player simply walked off, the situation would have ended at that. Instead the verbal disrespect and further conflict ensues which is then followed by physical melee'ing and an eventual shootout. This is somewhat commonplace in the server.

I will mention though that the repeated forcing open of the door is not really acceptable behavior here. In many cases, that could be seen as RDM baiting. With the prior context though, which makes the initial intent of the TM clear in my eyes, it's not a massive game changer. This previously mentioned rule was brought up without mentioning the final line: 

However if someone continues to disrespect you, you may physically intimidate or hit them. (Fists, melee weapon) As continued disrespect could realistically start a fight. The user then has free choice on how to respond/retaliate. If they choose to flee you may not kill them. 

There have been a few other relevant rules thrown around in the thread so far, but I would point both involved players to these rules, also:

(Disclaimer: Initiating arguments just to attack someone when they return your insults or taking any comment as an insult and immediately escalating to hitting them can be considered baiting as proper escalation / the spirit of the rule is not being followed)

and

Generally you shouldn't invite conflict then try to hide behind the rules when you're killed. This can also be considered baiting as described under killing rule 6. Intentionally instigating someone or goad them into breaking a rule.

Both players invite conflict in different ways throughout this situation though, and overall it feels fairly balanced.

Could the TM have done better? Yes, but the other player could also have simply apologized for pointing his gun, or walked into his property without comment.

With all of this in mind, it seems like naturally occurring player conflict and I don't believe a ban was necessary for this, thus the ban will be lifted shortly.

I'd recommend everyone involved scrubs up on the killing and escalation rules anyway, for good measure.

[calink]

Your ban appeal has been reviewed and accepted.

The ban will be lifted from your account shortly. If it was deemed an invalid ban, it will also be removed from your record.