Pk appeal

[dinky]

Name of Character: Frank Kline

SteamID: 76561199132180511

Your Discord ID#: dinkydii

Date of PK: 8/5/2024

Reason for PK: I was pked for taking a shirt that was more then 10,000

Why should you be unPK'd? What server rule or PK rule was violated?: I think that I should be unpkd because after I took the guys shirt he gunned me down. When I respawned he went over to the hospital I was at which is breaking nlr and said "Drop the shirt or iam going to pk you." which I had on recording. 

 

Using OOC terms over Mic, (Such as yelling "thats a pk, thats a pk!" After killing someone) may void the PK entirely. Remain in character at all times. "AFTER killing someone" 

The pking admin "4Lights" said "when he approached you, yes he was breaking nlr but the conflict was over by then" The rule that is in the PK guidelines state AFTER killing someone. this interaction also occurred less than a minute later, the angry dude I stole from hoped to get his shirt back BY interacting with me ABOUT the robbing. There is no new situation as 4Lights stated. It is just staff being bias towards other staff as the opposing party was staff aswell. Staff discretion does not overwrite the rules, it allows you to justify whether what happened was justifiable. I robbed the guy He killed me He ran up a minute later in hopes to get his shirt back 4light says when he approached you in the hospital it was a whole new situation WHICH it was not because it was all about the PK It states in the rules AFTER being killed, breaking OOC completely negates the PK. I hope where you understand where I am coming from. This is completely absurd. Heres the clip of him when he approached me telling me its a pk 

If possible please provide video evidence or photo evidence if PK does not follow the guidelines:

https://medal.tv/games/garrys-mod/clips/ipR4cYimzpPv74OHZ/d1337LuRrePE?invite=cr-MSxaZ0MsMjEzMTkyMzQwLA

[4Lights]

Hi PKIng staff here. You clearly admitted to the theft and the death in the sit. You stole in excess of $10,000 and died not 20 second after the initial theft, as I explained in the sit. The rule you are quoting "

Quote

■ Using OOC terms over Mic, (Such as yelling "thats a pk, thats a pk!" After killing someone) may void the PK entirely. Remain in character at all times."

Key here being MAY void the PK, and under my discretion I did not believe someone going and trying to offer you a way out of the PK in return for the items back. Was a situation that would inherently void the PK situation. You seemingly knew exactly, that your actions would lead to a PK and did not dispute the actions themselves, only the technicality; which albeit has some fail-rp/NLR, I consider this more of in a minor nature, and would more or less be welcome by a lot of the people in a similar situation. 

There is always a difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law, this circumstance I believe my discretion, to be correct. I do not believe you should be unpked, as you clearly knew the situation you put yourself in would lead you to a PK. This video, where he offers 'get pked or gimmie stuff back' happened after you had died, after you had respawned and was unrelated to the death/pk itself. I don't think the spirit of the rule is intended to punish those trying to offer a break to others, and would set a terrible precedent moving forward.

Again, I apologise it sucks to lose a character, but we are at a disagreement here, hopefully a higher staff can take a closer look and make the appropriate decision.

[dinky]

"after you had respawned and was unrelated to the death/pk itself." This is not unrelated at all. He purposely came up to me, CONTINUING the conversation about the PK as to which I denied giving it back. Where do you find this unrelated? I died, he came to me continuing the interaction that occurred. The rule clearly states "AFTER" it does not say 'once you respawn this is negated completely'. Your staff discretion is you attempting to reword a rule to where its almost completely different and basically what your telling me from what I understand is that when I PK someone for stealing my shit, AFTER ive killed them I can go up to them and say "gimme my shit back or get pk'd"? sure ill catch an NLR warn but I can still go confront them AFTER they died. Your discretion makes no sense.

[4Lights]

You admit that you did the crime and that you got killed? 'I robbed the bank but you can't get me because I didn't put the dollar sign on the bag'. When I said unrelated, it meant unrelated to the direct roleplay situation of you stealing and getting killed. You had respawned, you were outside the roleplay scene that had just ended, him and you talking there, would not interfere with any active roleplay scene, or interfere with anyone's immediate immersion in any roleplay scenes, which from my understanding is the intent of the rule.

He was saying what he was going to do and if you didn't want him to press the PK, he just wanted the stuff back, is there some NLR concerns sure, but he did not act on anything, he did not attempt to roleplay anything. Which again, the offer, would likely be welcomed by the majority of the people not trying to skirt on a technicality. You then immediately transferred the shirt to a third party, indicating to me, that the shirt was worth more to you than the character.

As I stated again, "may void the pk entirely" I did not feel that the "may" should be applied in this situation, I am not rewording any rule or inherently changing anything. I have stated my outlook and my reasoning for my decision. We are arguing in circles and I'd rather not continue to do so, as this boils down to me not believing a void should be applicable for this situation and you believing a void to be applicable. As previously stated a higher staff will rule on this and when they do, they will explain their reasoning to do so.

[Lucid Mangos]

As the person you encountered in the clip. I do admit it was bit of a break of NLR of such, but ultimately we made the ticket. So really I just jumped the gun, either way I would've asked you to return the fed shirt 2 anyway. The situation you died in, I followed you out of the club and asked multiple time to drop the shirt but you still refused. After you died I did not say anything about a PK. The next time I encountered you, I asked you to return the suit and we wont continue through with the PK ticket. To which you denied. The situation in question though you showed a complete disregard for your life. 

You had all the opportunities to return the suit before I killed you. You chose not to give it up. The situation after is no longer the same situation. If a higher admin thinks this PK is undeserving congrats on the fed shirt! Otherwise if you dont get unPKd congrats on doubling down for 85k. 

[Canadian-bacon]

The initial assessment by the handling admin is correct, if you've stolen an item worth $10,000+ and refuse to return it under gunpoint or have a hit put on you it is within the realm of possibility to be pk'ed. Though the clip should have been longer...

Now addressing the clip where the person consults you after the kill and based on their further reply, yes it's NLR but I also tend to see this as powergame, attempting to leverage the return of their virtual item in exchange for not processing a pk. You either put the PK request in or don't, you don't get to leverage the clip to have them return the stolen item AFTER you've killed them. If you want to take it into roleplay and attempt to recoup the item before a hit is ordered after discussion with the opposing family (per regular diplomacy Roleplay) that's fine, but using an existing and valid PK request to leverage the item's return is powergame. (and OOC over mic pal!!)

To iterate; powergame.

17 hours ago, Lucid Mangos said:

I asked you to return the suit and we wont continue through with the PK ticket.

If this was done properly in roleplay as I described above, then yes it's fine. Leveraging a clip to stop the pk from going through is not permitted, especially in a sit...

17 hours ago, Lucid Mangos said:

either way I would've asked you to return the fed shirt 2 anyway

 

Also no,

17 hours ago, Lucid Mangos said:

Congrats on the fed shirt!

The original theft of the shirt and pk was still valid but reversed later due to an attempted powergame to retrieve the virtual item, in this circumstance I will reverse the pk, however the item will be removed from circulation and destroyed.

[Canadian-bacon]

Your appeal has been reviewed and accepted.

Your character has been reinstated and can be used again.