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gosh golly is it Anyway, United States v. Gorin, which further expanded on legal principles related to terry frisking, which was expanding in cases like Adams v. Williams, established by Terry v. Ohio. Terry v. Ohio is a baseline knowledge of the law, but isn't reflective of further judicial rulings in terms of the scope and applicability of the Terry Frisking rules. My main concern is regarding the establishment of face-to-face civilian witnesses, which don't have the same requirement of reliability as you'd typically see in actual criminal informants. In Gorin, an officer was given a description through an anonymous tipline. They then, under their presumption, found the individual whom they believed to have made the report and he repeated the information in person. The defense in this appellate case argued that the bartender, the man who gave the description of the guy with the gun, had not been deemed a reliable witness through prior interactions. The courts found that because he was a guy who was seen as a civilian whom they'd have the ability to subpoena for testimony, and could further corroborate and would reasonably be able to testify in court. Now, what did the court find and was the arrest upheld? The court found that mixing in a variety of factors - notably, the actual description of the individual, coupled with the fact that civilian witnesses dont have the burdon of "reliability", coupled with the "flight risk" i.e. they could reasonably assume the man would leave if they went back and questioned the bartender further, they allowed for the arrest to stand. This, is obviously a *very* low bar, compared to an actual search of a person, and one that cops aren't going to understand because this is gmod. The cops who *do* understand, are going to abuse this. So you're either going to have a guy fucking up, not understanding, and ruining the RP of a player, or you're going to have a retard asshole try and cater his own testimony to reflect what the defining features of what an allowable terry frisk would be (relatable) As a cop now, I would 100% utilize terry frisks way too much. Because the bar is so low. Realistically, I'd *love* to have terry frisks. But also being a guy who does criminal RP, I also understand that it would be really gay and the community would hate it and it would only serve to cause problems. The problem we have here is theres already an issue with random raids. Like, not even a week ago, a captain mass raided an apartment complex because he lost sight of a guy who ran into the apartments. Just kicked every door down. Obviously bad, obviously not even the legal standard, but we all have a garry's mod level understanding of the law. If, the random raiding is a problem even for captains, random terry frisks that don't fit the standards of the courts are going to be an even bigger problem. And if you're not *always* recording, the staff aren't going to do anything about it. Community; how many times have you been randomly arrested and told "Go to court and fight it IC", because it was iffy enough that it wasn't necessarily a rule break, but definitely illegal? How many times have you been arrested for the most mundane action that you didn't clip and you had to deal with a 3 week court thing just to get it dismissed? OBVIOUSLY the cops can't handle this kind of function. They're retarded. No amount of trainings will fix that. They'll do dumb shit, if people are smart enough to clip I don't know that we'd even blacklist for a "Random terry frisk", and if we do we'd be blacklisting a lot of cops. No. Hard fucking no. I don't trust the cops. I don't trust the prosecution to not ignore faulty actions on part of the cops (because i've watched us do that), and I don't trust staff to be able to adequately understand irl law regarding terry frisks to even identify when one is incorrect and random.

It's Terry v. Ohio

im going to dunk on this retarded ass post, give me about an hour to get caselaw

2nd time me and this guy has agreed on something

I personally think it would be better for an NPC at the barge or sewers be selling/trading these where you can first get the fake and then potentially have more options such as change name, gun license, attachment stamp, etc. Potentially it would be also cool to have civs to do it as another way of them making money potentially but I still think the NPC would be better. As well as a instead of device that can see it, I agree with the success rate, it also could be a simple roll where when a cop asks for ID, it will be an automatic roll system on a fake, whether it shows the good standard ID that's hard to see or something like what you posted. The roll can be more favorable for those who decide to invest more into a fake with more upgrades with stamps and gun licenses but also with higher chance with roll. I think the majority who would use it are felons with fake gun licenses and everything fake, so they can go and buy guns or carry them openly, as a lot of people when they become felons either make new characters or just get their felony record removed a couple of months later. This would motivate people on getting something instead of creating a new char over and over again. As well as they can change their name in those ids.

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-1 will just get mass abused as reasonable suspicion is a concept unknown to gmod cops, if the answer is "then there will be IC repercussions" more court rp isnt what this server needs.

I know that I can be untrust worthy, but I really love playing this game and I understand where you're coming from But I'm truly asking for one more chance. This server has been a big part of my gaming experience, and I don't want to give it up now over something like this. It won't happen again.

If poor Jimmy is illegally carrying a gun, maybe he's fucked, but it also adds a level of little Jimmy hearing those shots and knowing he may need to lock the fuck in and hide away or submit to a search he knows he'll pass if he plays it smart (more tech in terms of reacting to your environment and preparing yourself). Like I said, it won't detect the cocaine in his inventory, just the fact that he is indeed strapped and ready to blow your shit clean off at a moment's notice. Merely having a gun doesn't immediately escalate to probable cause and give cause for full search.

no sir I don't have a gun, that's just my massive penis

I can see this only being remotely balanced if it was dependent on the 'quality' of the fake and it would cap out at a certain percentage to show a convincing fake ID or an obvious piece of shit fake id. Like 85% success rate for the top quality one you can get. or else you just show them: But where would you get the fakes? Who would sell them? If one single faction can control the fakes market cant they just control the supply to not give it to their enemies? Who is gonna be buying n using' fakes? Does the fake include a fake gun license too? etc etc

The ban will be reduced to 2 hours (time served) and the reason will be changed to reflect the possible misunderstanding.

Like... Im 50/50, great functionality and RP stuff but the issue is the level of standard particularly how it can be interpreted by cops and lead to cops becoming potentially more powerful and unbalanced. (oh and powergamey) The idea "if suspected of comitting a crime.. " when shit goes down, this can impact a lot of bystanders not involved in the situation for just being nearby or passing through. E.g shooting at ghetto, poor jimmy (not involved) just collected his Cocaine package at ghetto, gets stopped by cops and terry frisked. He is now Busted. (lets be real, everyone is comitting crimes. Giving cops the additional power of reasonable suspicion can be detrimental, and by cops im more so talking about retarded cops or cop mains who are unecessarily strict or assholes who can use this to stop you and increase risk of catching illegal things on people) Sure you can say "we will make it clear in training, SOP and our standards and have misusers prosecuted in the court of law for corruption!", but this shithouse will not make it worth it.. Having to go to court or even make staff tickets and just drag everything out makes it a unecessary headache. But deffo a useful function for crime faction members/civs. For cops? its a difficult stance to take unless it is well balanced.. Which it is not cos this shit happens at the probable cause level (which is meant to be a much HIGHER standard).

I'm sorry, It was my first day on the server and had no idea that tickets were even a thing. I assure you it was NOT intentional, and understand why action was taken. If their is any way an early unban can be given that would be much appreciated.

peak +1

Hey, so I was the staff who banned you for those reasons. When I tried to pull you into a sit, you were not present on the server anymore, for me to hear your POV of the events. I followed the evidence that was provided by the other player and acted accordingly. The clip provided showed the Officer trying to kick down the door of the car in an attempt to get you out and arrest you, and in all the time this issue happened, you never made a ticket to explain your side of the story or to even get you unglitched, if this in fact was an accident/unintentional on your side. If it was unintenional, I am all for an unban as only a few hours remain on the ban either way. However, as future reference, please make a ticket ingame (@ + message) if you are glitched out and it is not your fault. If you do not, then other staff may think you ar doing so on purpose and act accordingly. Also, and as a final note, the officer was even killed when whoever was driving the car ragdolled them, and this situation could have been avoided if you had made a ticket for assistance.

How it feels to murder an officer cause they asked for my ID (i am fully licensed)

Thank you for applying to the Diverge Networks staff team! It is my pleasure to inform you that your application has been accepted. Submit a ticket on our Discord for training and to get setup.

Thank you for applying to the Diverge Networks staff team! It is my pleasure to inform you that your application has been accepted. Submit a ticket on our Discord for training and to get setup.

Yeah.. It was the glitch where the cuffed person is seated in the car but the position bugs elsewhere around the car.. Its a common bug which as far as i know a cuffed person cannot do (as they cannot do much at all, literally)

Hey it's your local legal nerd who wants you to all get arrested. So, currently in the server we only have fully intrusive searches (by legal standards). These searches require probable cause and the searcher gets to see EVERYTHING you have on you. However, there is a lower level of search called a "Terry Frisk." This is essentially when the cops have reasonable suspicion you have committed a crime and could have a weapon, so they 'pat you down' for any apparent arms. What I am proposing is adding Terry Frisks as a function to bridge that gap. The way I'm picturing it is the same way the breathalyzer and EMS prompts are, where you ask to frisk someone then get a /it in return for "you feel the handle of a weapon" or something like that. It wouldn't detect drugs or anything else, it'd just detect the concealed weapon. At that point, it's up to the officer or whoever is frisking the other person on how they act with the knowledge they are armed. It adds more RP and can also apply to criminals frisking someone else for a weapon during a deal or before they're about to whack them. It wouldn't solely help police and the function could be available for other means. Don't just "-1 because police bad." If you have genuine issues or possible adjustments, feel free. Edit: Maybe have the /it clarify if they feel a melee weapon handle or a gun handle. They could see its a melee weapon and disregard, or notice that the man in front of them is strapped and has the potential to put a 9 in their forehead in less than 2 seconds.

Granted you have apologized I will choose to give you benefit here and reduce this ban, but don't let it become a pattern, you've been good so far.

Hi, banning staff member here, as you admitted in your appeal You, we're killed at the Garrison one time resulting in your NLR timer to start in which you chose to go back again and attempt to stab an individual. Unfortunately, the clip showing you stabbing the guy was deleted but it was shown in logs you being killed twice in the same place Infront of the Garrison which resulted in me handing you a ban, I feel this ban is just due to you're priors.

I remember in your last perma I even had you read the rules and fill out the rule quiz. You then got banned 4 more times after that second chance was granted. Why should I bother affording you a third or fourth chance, especially since it hasn't even been a year since your re-ban? What do I gain other than someone who will likely be banned again?

Your Character or Steam Name:John Ireland Your SteamID (Click to retrieve):STEAM_0:0:713563728 Your Discord ID#:bide_fuze406 Reason for ban:NLR Length of ban:3 days Reason for appeal (dispute/apology): apology Why should you be unbanned? I had been playing for several hours on my Carmine Sacks char. At some point the man I stabbed twice on my John char was hired into the org and was guarding the front. we hung out on my Carmine char for at least 2 hrs. We were well acquainted I decided I had enough grinding for oil and switched to my john char. I was talking with him (the man just recently hired my friend)for a little bit and we were posted in front of the Garrison gun store. we initiated a knife fight I was shot by the store owner mid fight. this is where i messed up I immediately took the back to the fight again. the fight entered the Garrison immediately the two store employees entered yelled at us to leave and i was shot again. I should've thought of the employees and there business. I really do apologize I wasn't thinking about NLR i was just trying to mess around with my friend. I should have thought of the fact I was killed by the store employee and not my friend originally. However I do now understand even if my friend killed me it would still be unacceptable to return immediately just to mess around. A year ago or so I was a complete troll on the server however now I try to take it seriously and I quite enjoy the community and want to understand the rules better. next time I will think about the rules and whom I'm affecting before I act. I sincerely apologize to the staff and the people affected by my actions. I just really want to get back in and start grinding oil and to try to rank up in my org. Additional Information (images, videos, etc): n/a