Paddy Kinahan Ban Appeal

[Seann1]

Your Character or Steam Name: Paddy Kinahan

Your SteamID (Click to retrieve):STEAM_0:1:197964585

Your Discord ID#:sseaann

Reason for ban: Rdm x3

Length of ban:4 days

Reason for appeal (dispute/apology): Dispute

Why should you be unbanned?Monaclu sat there and threatened to mug me and members of my faction if not paid a million dollars, in any roleplay sense at the rank that I am, somebody would shoot these people for the immense disrespect and the situation. Obviously, due to 2 of Monaclu's people having guns out, I didnt pull my gun out while warning them to leave, because I would've been shot in SECONDS, rendering the situation pointles. I waited for monaclu to start leaving my building after 30 seconds of talking shit and refusing to leave and gunned him down, To call this RDM for protecting my own life for finding a situation that was preferable to myself to shoot is a joke. I was threatened with mugging towards me and my faction if we didnt pay them 1 mil, and took the opportunity to make sure nothing said in the meeting was taken out of the meeting by killing them.

Additional Information (images, videos, etc):

[money blue]

1. You can't shoot for disrespect, properly escalate it.

2. "and took the opportunity to make sure nothing said in the meeting was taken out of the meeting by killing them." What????

3. I was waiting at the door to leave and got gunned down... not cool man.

https://medal.tv/games/garrys-mod/clips/n13MxP8r2w4rd9CS-?invite=cr-MSxTRDMsMzMwODc5MDY&v=22

[Seann1]

2 minutes ago, money blue said:

1. You can't shoot for disrespect, properly escalate it.

2. "and took the opportunity to make sure nothing said in the meeting was taken out of the meeting by killing them." What????

3. I was waiting at the door to leave and got gunned down... not cool man.

https://medal.tv/games/garrys-mod/clips/n13MxP8r2w4rd9CS-?invite=cr-MSxTRDMsMzMwODc5MDY&v=22

You threatened to mug me and members of my faction, not disrespect, numerous times, you had guns pulled out, obviously not pulling a gun out and getting shot immediately, yes i took the chance to kill you when I had it who wouldn't

Edited 12 hours ago by Seann1

[money blue]

1 minute ago, Seann1 said:

You threatened to mug me and members of my faction, not disrespect, numerous times, you had guns pulled out, obviously not pulling a gun out and getting shot immediately, yes i took the chance to kill you when I had it who wouldn't

A sit down should never end in shooting, words are going to be thrown out there whether you like it or not. You bringing up the fact that we had guns on safety is null considering your security did as well, it's just for the sake of protection on both ends.

[Seann1]

Just now, money blue said:

A sit down should never end in shooting, words are going to be thrown out there whether you like it or not. You bringing up the fact that we had guns on safety is null considering your security did as well, it's just for the sake of protection on both ends.

Hardly a sitdown when your first words said are belittling me and then threatening to mug me lmao

[Pendred]

good

[Seann1]

threaten to send 40 people to mug me then get surprised when you get shot in the back! its a travesty!!

[Greenghost_906]

Hi! Banning staff member here. As per escalation rules: 

Quote

 

You may not kill someone or escalate a confrontation to murder just for verbal disrespect/argument.
-However if someone continues to disrespect you, you may physically intimidate or hit them. (Fists, melee weapon) As continued disrespect could realistically start a fight. The user then has free choice on how to respond/retaliate. If they choose to flee you may not kill them.
a. If the user is attacked they may flee and return later (5 minutes maximum) to exact revenge on the assailants as described under killing rule 6.
b. If the user is subject to an active threat via knife or gunpoint they can choose to retaliate or instead leave peacefully. However they may not return later to attack them without sufficient reason as the previous situation had already ended.

In regards to how a user is allowed to react to verbal threats.
There are two types of threats, an 'Active Threat' and a 'Idle threat'. Users may kill for an active threat but they may not kill for an idle a threat.
The difference between the two is situational but will always pertain to if the person making the threats has a weapon in their hand.
For example, someone pointing a gun at you and threatening to kill you. This is an Active threat.
Someone saying they will kill/beat you in an argument or conversation. (Unarmed, weapon on safety etc) that is an idle threat.
You are allowed to react to an Active threat in that moment (Not later when the situation is over).

 

You chose to shoot him for verbal threats with a gun on safety, specifically what these rules advise against. Not only that, but they were actively trying to leave by the time you chose to shoot them. There was no active threat and the situation was coming to a close, and you chose to escalate it incorrectly.

[KingJewMonaclu]

Hi, I was the guy who had a meeting with you for a fued that we're having, and you shot us.

I did in fact threaten to have you mugged, that's true. Nobody pointed guns, this was the usual spat, threats not backed up by nothing in the moment happening.

The problem is, is that according to you:

 

This was about us not leaving the property. The entire sit was about that. This, "He threatened to have me mugged" thing is just you reaching for anything at this point.

The meeting went poorly, obviously. You asked us to leave, 3 times. The guns that were "Out" were on safety. Escalation was not reached to gunfights.

When we left, we left with our backs turned, and you gunned us down leaving. Which is what we did. Which is what you shot us while we were doing.

 

 

I've laid out the proper escalation for you

 

1. Guy threatens you or is mean or whatever

2. You pull out a gun, point it at them, give them a command to leave

3. You give them ample time to respond

4. If they're not doing the thing, you shoot them. Or if they pull a gun out, you shoot them.

5. Either they do it, or you get into a gunfight and see who's the better shooter

 

 

You failed at part 2, pointing the gun and giving a command to leave

You also failed at part 4, "If they're not doing the thing"; as when you shot us, we were doing the thing.

It's not "Don't pull a gun, because (as you said in the sit) i'm scared they'll shoot us. and then like, shoot them when their backs are turned. because i'm a coward or whatever."

 

 

Please review the difference between an "Active threat" and an "Inactive threat", as dictated by the rules.

 

I find it highly laughable that, during our sitdown, you spouted off that "We can't threaten you, or extort you, because there's not an escalation ticket open".

We can, in an opportunity to avoid escalation. But then, you yourself would fail to actually know the rules a second time by shooting us as we were doing what you asked. Albeit late.

Edited 12 hours ago by KingJewMonaclu

[Seann1]

1 minute ago, KingJewMonaclu said:

Hi, I was the guy who had a meeting with you for a fued that we're having, and you shot us.

I did in fact threaten to have you mugged, that's true. Nobody pointed guns, this was the usual spat, threats not backed up by nothing in the moment happening.

The problem is, is that according to you:

 

This was about us not leaving the property. The entire sit was about that. This, "He threatened to have me mugged" thing is just you reaching for anything at this point.

The meeting went poorly, obviously. You asked us to leave, 3 times. The guns that were "Out" were on safety. Escalation was not reached to gunfights.

When we left, we left with our backs turned, and you gunned us down leaving. Which is what we did. Which is what you shot us while we were doing.

 

 

I've laid out the proper escalation for you

 

1. Guy threatens you or is mean or whatever

2. You pull out a gun, point it at them, give them a command to leave

3. You give them ample time to respond

4. If they're not doing the thing, you shoot them. Or if they pull a gun out, you shoot them.

5. Either they do it, or you get into a gunfight and see who's the better shooter

 

 

You failed at part 2, pointing the gun and giving a command to leave

You also failed at part 4, "If they're not doing the thing"; as when you shot us, we were doing the thing.

It's not "Don't pull a gun, because (as you said in the sit) i'm scared they'll shoot us. and then like, shoot them when their backs are turned. because i'm a coward or whatever."

 

 

Please review the difference between an "Active threat" and an "Inactive threat", as dictated by the rules.

 

I find it highly laughable that, during our sitdown, you spouted off that "We can't threaten you, or extort you, because there's not an escalation ticket open".

We can, in an opportunity to avoid escalation. But then, you yourself would fail to actually know the rules a second time by shooting us as we were doing what you asked. Albeit late.

So, I pull out gun, Shot immediately in my own property, escalation continues after you threatening to have me mugged by "40 people and have them die as long as you can mug me" or, I wait until your back is turned after warning you and then I shoot you, Is this supposed to be roleplay or whatever doesnt go my way deserves a ban, If this were Real life, as we pretend it to be, would a person of my rank not have somebody shot for threatening to rob me with 40+ people and then refusing to leave my property, Sure you can say I didnt follow escalation rules, but the second i pull my gun out i'm gunned down by your two buddies after you proceeded to tell me you're going to target mug me and my faction, The highest form of roleplay would be to shoot you for coming into MY property and trying to disrespect me like that as that would NEVER fly in real life lmao.

[Seann1]

I'm Innocent!

[Shauningt]

Your ban appeal has been reviewed and denied.

We have determined this ban to be reasonable and/or justified.

After reviewing the evidence, your explanation, and the responses from both the banning staff member and the involved parties, it is clear that the escalation rules were not followed. Whilst you were verbally threatened with future retaliation and mugging, these were idle threats, not an active threat.

At no point were you being actively held at gunpoint or placed into immediate danger that would justify the use of lethal force under our escalation rules. Weapons being held on safety during a sit-down do not constitute an active threat and do not give you permission to initiate a gunfight.

The primary issue is that, by your own admission, you waited until the group began leaving before opening fire. This demonstrates that you recognised an opportunity rather than responding to an immediate threat. The roleplay situation was actively de-escalating, not escalating. Furthermore, the individuals you killed were complying with your instructions to leave the property. Evidence provided shows they were attempting to exit the building when they were shot. Although the door was locked and prevented them from leaving immediately, they had already turned their backs towards you and were making a genuine effort to comply with your demands. At this point there was no longer an active confrontation requiring lethal force. Had the group refused to leave after you had properly escalated by presenting a firearm and issuing clear commands, or had they drawn weapons against you or otherwise posed an immediate threat, the situation may have been different. Instead, you bypassed the required escalation process entirely and chose to shoot individuals who were already attempting to disengage from the encounter.

For these reasons, the RDM ban will remain in place.

Ensure you have read our Server Rules.

Edited 1 hour ago by Shauningt