Ban Appeal

[cordelier]

Your Character or Steam Name: Chekhov / Malik Ali

Your Discord ID#: johnnysacrimoni

Reason for ban: RDM

Length of ban: 3 days

Reason for appeal (dispute/apology): Dispute

Why should you be unbanned?

 

From the moment I & the other members of the Nation of Islam (prospective) faction got on, we were targeted by random players for being a black faction; whilst obviously I'm not complaining about this from an OOC perspective, it's salient to me 'RDMing' someone. We were called '1942 RPers' and degenerates on the forums by Anzati, followed around by the police, and, admittedly upon our instigation, antagonised by a group of Jews. At some point during this, some of our members were shot by the police - although this was valid, Anzati started to repeatedly charkick Shittor (on his NoI char, which was involved with the situation) whilst he was engaged roleplaying with the police, telling him to take the PK tickets for the aforementioned situation. Shortly after, one of the Jews who had a weapon pistol whipped Andrew, nearly killing him, spamming the N word at us, and then following us as we looked for a place to talk privately; we ended up going to the crackhouse, where we'd bought a door. I repeatedly told him during this time period to leave. Eventually, he got bored and went off to do whatever it is he does all night.

 

Around 15 minutes later, I saw two of the Jews running towards the door to our crackhouse with a gun out. I told them (at gunpoint) not to enter the building, assuming they were here to kill us. They'd also taken off their clothes and were now wearing the default white shirts. They entered anyway, and I shot one of them. In the server rules, it says returning to a situation to kill someone who'd attacked you or a 'partner' is permissible; however, I was brought to a sit for killing him. The moderator, SkyzerBeFr, told me that it doesn't matter that he'd done damage to us, since 15 minutes was too long to be relevant, and that I apparently hadn't met his arbitrary boundary of '3 warnings' within propinquity of the last time he ran at us (not specified in the rules) to be allowed to kill the guy. He didn't bring Andrew, he didn't take into consideration us being combat baited, and said due to my 'POs' and 'not learning my lesson' that I would be banned for three days.

 

At this point, Shittor teleported to the sit, asking to talk to Skyzer. After telling him not to ban me, he was brought by Anzati and yelled at for interceding in a situation he would have bias in (despite this apparently being acceptable for the purposes of a PK). Afterwards, I was brought back to the sit and banned for 3 days. 

Additional Information (images, videos, etc):

 

[Ruffian]

+1

 

These "jews" were following us around spamming "N**GER" in the /yell, unironically minging. If you checked the chat logs, you would see they spammed "N**GER" around 50~ times. After this, they pistol whip Andrew and run away. Then, they follow us around and harass us non-stop. They refuse to let us engage in roleplay or meet in private, and they follow us all the way to the crack-house where we buy a door and threaten them that unless they leave, they will die. Keep in mind, these people have followed us around despite MULTIPLE warnings to leave or we will fuck them up, they pistol-whipped Andrew, and then they came back as White Shirts and they refused to leave under pain of death. They fully knew what they were doing, and I think its odd they can go around minging and then stand on some pedestal when they get shot.

 

Edited Thursday at 02:32 AM by Ruffian

[Andy]

4 minutes ago, cordelier said:

Your Character or Steam Name: Chekhov / Malik Ali

Your Discord ID#: johnnysacrimoni

Reason for ban: RDM

Length of ban: 3 days

Reason for appeal (dispute/apology): Dispute

Why should you be unbanned?

 

From the moment I & the other members of the Nation of Islam (prospective) faction got on, we were targeted by random players for being a black faction; whilst obviously I'm not complaining about this from an OOC perspective, it's salient to me 'RDMing' someone. We were called '1942 RPers' and degenerates on the forums by Anzati, followed around by the police, and, admittedly upon our instigation, antagonised by a group of Jews. At some point during this, some of our members were shot by the police - although this was valid, Anzati started to repeatedly charkick Shittor (on his NoI char, which was involved with the situation) whilst he was engaged roleplaying with the police, telling him to take the PK tickets for the aforementioned situation. Shortly after, one of the Jews who had a weapon pistol whipped Andrew, nearly killing him, spamming the N word at us, and then following us as we looked for a place to talk privately; we ended up going to the crackhouse, where we'd bought a door. I repeatedly told him during this time period to leave. Eventually, he got bored and went off to do whatever it is he does all night.

 

Around 15 minutes later, I saw two of the Jews running towards the door to our crackhouse with a gun out. I told them (at gunpoint) not to enter the building, assuming they were here to kill us. They'd also taken off their clothes and were now wearing the default white shirts. They entered anyway, and I shot one of them. In the server rules, it says returning to a situation to kill someone who'd attacked you or a 'partner' is permissible; however, I was brought to a sit for killing him. The moderator, SkyzerBeFr, told me that it doesn't matter that he'd done damage to us, since 15 minutes was too long to be relevant, and that I apparently hadn't met his arbitrary boundary of '3 warnings' within propinquity of the last time he ran at us (not specified in the rules) to be allowed to kill the guy. He didn't bring Andrew, he didn't take into consideration us being combat baited, and said due to my 'POs' and 'not learning my lesson' that I would be banned for three days.

 

At this point, Shittor teleported to the sit, asking to talk to Skyzer. After telling him not to ban me, he was brought by Anzati and yelled at for interceding in a situation he would have bias in (despite this apparently being acceptable for the purposes of a PK). Afterwards, I was brought back to the sit and banned for 3 days. 

Additional Information (images, videos, etc):

 

+1, The Administrator was completely bias and didn't ask for any other side of the story or accounts including my own when I was a massive part of the ordeal, as around five minutes prior to the situation mentioned here the same Jewish faction member was continuously following me around gun whipping me without any causation and trying to bait the rest of the people surrounding me. After this I informed Cord that this person was gun whipping me constantly without any sort of reason other than his OOC bias and his clear intention to minge and combat bait. Following this the situation mentioned above happened in which the Administrators didn't ask for any other accounts and completely refuted everybody's opinion apart from the one's he wanted to hear.

[Skyzer]

Banning admin here!

So I took the ticket and got my evidence for the RDM.  With further communication with the reporter, he sent me a clip of him RDMing him.  I then check his logs for combat and find that the reporter had hit one of his friends and then further did not do anything about it.  10 minutes later he then proceeded to shoot the reporter who had his gun out in safety (never pointed it at him) and then further came the ticket.  Also by checking his past offenses I find 6 notes of RDM spanning from this year to a couple years before.  I also then proceed to check his bans and find again 6 bans of RDM and extensive POs.  He told me that he is a changed person and doesn't act like this anymore.  I further gave him a 3 day ban because I felt it was reasonable.


Evidence:

https://ibb.co/ZzGdwYh

https://medal.tv/games/garrys-mod/clips/iZe6CBTIj2FYwiYMo?invite=cr-MSxSRlcsMzMwODc5MDYs

https://ibb.co/nkkLtGs


Sidenote from me:

I feel the ban is legitimate.  From the start of this, I have said I am unbiased.  I don't side with anyone, not even my own faction members.  

Edited Thursday at 02:47 AM by Skyzer

[cordelier]

Your video shows the guy with a whiteshirt on running in with a gun after having attacked us prior, as you yourself just showed, saying 'whats up pussy'. Apparently prior context is completely irrelevant to you, but it isn't in the rules that the attack has to have happened at the same place and there's no requirement for our warnings to them to have been within 30 seconds of the dumbasses running inside with guns. We'd been warning them for 30 minutes.

Edited Thursday at 02:48 AM by cordelier

[Ruffian]

3 minutes ago, Skyzer said:

Banning admin here!

So I took the ticket and got my evidence for the RDM.  With further communication with the reporter, he sent me a clip of him RDMing him.  I then check his logs for combat and find that the reporter had hit one of his friends and then further did not do anything about it.  10 minutes later he then proceeded to shoot the reporter who had his gun out in safety (never pointed it at him) and then further came the ticket.  Also by checking his past offenses I find 6 notes of RDM spanning from this year to a couple years before.  I also then proceed to check his bans and find again 6 bans of RDM and extensive POs.  He told me that he is a changed person and doesn't act like this anymore.  I further gave him a 3 day ban because I felt it was reasonable.


Evidence:

https://ibb.co/ZzGdwYh

https://medal.tv/games/garrys-mod/clips/iZe6CBTIj2FYwiYMo?invite=cr-MSxSRlcsMzMwODc5MDYs

https://ibb.co/nkkLtGs


Sidenote from me:

I feel the ban is legitimate.  From the start of this, I have said I am unbiased.  I don't side with anyone, not even my own faction members.  

I feel the "Evidence" is severely lacking in context. I personally, @Rho, @Andy, @cordelier, and many others have pulled all sorts of weapons out on these guys and warned them to leave us the fuck alone, to fuck off, they ATTACKED us, and when they pull up with a teched out full-auto screaming "Sup Pussy!", we aren't allowed to kill them?

[Rho]

+1.

This specific group of people followed us around for probably 30 minutes with absolutely no intent to roleplay. I won't play holy -- we certainly egged them on in the beginning by visiting what we thought was still the bank, but once I saw it wasn't the bank anymore we left. Words were exchanged but nothing on our end compared to the harassment that followed that in no way could be considered roleplay in any form. Everything we did stayed in roleplay and I took no issue with the original dispute between both ourselves and the other group. We apologized to the police for things getting out of hand, the police responded calling us minges and then disappeared in front of us to get two of us pked, still not a major issue.

I understand that when the NOI comes back and shakes things up, this kind of response is to be expected. I understand staff think we're minges or '42 larpers' (yet are ironically not the ones spamming racial slurs in IC chat)I take no particular issue with following us around spamming said slurs, calling the police on us any time we tried to isolate ourselves from said harassment, and ultimately following us into the crackhouse, weapons drawn, in white shirts to try and initiate a gunfight, and then it ultimately ending in a gunfight once our constant warnings to stop following us for 30 minutes and pistol whipping some of our people and running away are ignored. All of this would be fine and dismissed as them 'trolling' us after it could be argued we were just as responsible for starting the confrontation, but it definitely isn't appropriate to then play the victim and get one of us banned (of all people, Cordelier, who for the entire time we were on tonight was actively trying to prevent any confrontation, violence, or anything considered rulebreaking) after borderline minging and following us around for half an hour. Despite the hit-and-run pistol-whipping and punchwhoring, verbal and text spamming which was absolutely not roleplay while following us while we attempted to continue roleplaying, and much more, we only finally resorted to shooting once all of these prior warnings were absolutely disregarded and they continued to follow us, guns drawn, clothes unequipped, and rushing us. This is not roleplay and it is perfectly reasonable to finally shoot the people who have been warned/threatened a multitude of times for the past 30 minutes to stop following us and attacking some of us to the point of almost dying. 

Responding to that behavior, regardless of any prior offenses, absolutely does not constitute a 3 day ban. I'm positive many staff members were watching the situation unfold so I find it strange that unless it was out of dislike for us, responding to that kind of long-term aggression would have gotten of all people Cordelier banned, someone who can't even be framed as someone who just recently joined the server and has no intend to take it seriously. I can't imagine such a rash ban would have been given to any other group -- if we were killed after such a long joyride of harassment we would have been disregarded as minges who deserved to be killed. Engaging in such a long term conflict with a group of people, harassing them (even spamming the n-word in the sit), hitting them, and then finally switching out of your clothing and rushing them with weapons cannot be taken in any kind of way other than a continuation of the aggression that had been going on for such a long period of time.

Edited Thursday at 03:00 AM by Rho
Fixed my spelling of the word 'harassment' (thanks doc).

[eopsin]

+1. Punishing players for resolving a simple issue with a rational response both in and out of RP is not an intelligent move, and encourages this type of behavior. This type of behavior, of course, being that you may harass and discourage RP as much as possible, but so long as you are not reported, or you toe that line, you can get others in trouble by simply playing the babe in the woods card and feigning innocence. That isn't fair to the people who actually contribute to and play the server.

 

This is, at the absolute most, warranting only a warning that there was potentially alternative action. However, any active player of the server can attest that people get shot much more often for much less. Guns are often pulled for absolutely no reason, so a 30-minute-long harassment and minging campaign culminating in someone being shot is absolutely reasonable. Staff now often advocate for ruleplay over roleplay, in my opinion, and strict adherence to what is written rather than an application of reason. This makes me incredibly sad to see. Just the other day, I was speaking with the fine folks in the top levels of the NOI about how RP could be implemented between the NOI and government, and they expressed interest in real systems and real interactions to share that possibility with the server at large. Banning them for this is silly and ignorant.

[Canadian-bacon]

The yapping is insatiable. 

 

1 hour ago, cordelier said:

We were called '1942 RPers' and degenerates on the forums by Anzati,

Irrelevant and with no bearing on the context of the sit / ban.

1 hour ago, cordelier said:

admittedly upon our instigation, antagonised by a group of Jews.

True and real.

1 hour ago, cordelier said:

, Anzati started to repeatedly charkick Shittor (on his NoI char, which was involved with the situation) whilst he was engaged roleplaying with the police, telling him to take the PK tickets for the aforementioned situation

Again, irrelevant to the sit and RDM report.

1 hour ago, cordelier said:

Shittor teleported to the sit, asking to talk to Skyzer. After telling him not to ban me, he was brought by Anzati and yelled at for interceding in a situation he would have bias in (despite this apparently being acceptable for the purposes of a PK)

Also somewhat irrelevant, though I find the prospect of being yelled at by anzati of all people funny ( he doesn't yell ) Shittor can give input to skyzer without directly interfering with and interrupting a sit in the manner he did.

 

The reality here is pretty clear, your group were entering properties and starting issues with people and initiating conflicts and those groups of people were, in turn, doing that to you as well. Effectively beefing, though escalation with a non-existent faction is more difficult, it's still possible. This simply should have been a roleplay beef that was handled on the streets, within rules, your claims of having been previously attacked and told to be left alone would validate the kill but this can't be verified without providing contextualizing clips.

That being said the clip supplied by the ticket maker would be an insufficient length to demonstrate proper context (0:07) and the administrator should have requested a longer clip from the TM, as is encouraged. This lack of provable context further lends to your claim regarding earlier interactions and the damage log from 10 minutes prior seems to support that.

Both groups should have been given a warning to quit harassing each other and that should have been that. This situation does highlight a problem in the rules regarding reasonable time limits to return to attack someone who damaged you, which will be amended.

Quote

• Generally you shouldn't invite conflict then try to hide behind the rules when you're killed. This can also be considered baiting as described under killing rule 6. Intentionally instigating someone or goad them into breaking a rule.

 I find this rule to be potentially relevant to this situation on both sides of the issue. I think the prospective NOI group shouldn't be harassing people on their property if they don't want to be perceived as a minge group and I believe the groups opposing them should not bait them into kills then report them to staff. Duke it out or don't engage at all.

tl;dr do better RP, quit sitting in a call giggling while harassing ppl then dogpiling reply guy-esque paragraphs onto an appeal. This all can be handled in roleplay or via simple mutual warns. 

[Canadian-bacon]

The ban will be overturned, but I expect more from you.

 

Your ban appeal has been reviewed and accepted.

The ban will be lifted from your account shortly. If it was deemed an invalid ban, it will also be removed from your record.